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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #31 
OK, I'll concede that some of what you say is better.

But, pornography is all over the place, and over the line. A major concern for parents. How it exploits women and children - disgusting. Here is Glen Beck's argument against it:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0611/22/gb.01.html

Drugs and alcohol all over the place! Alcoholic drink disguised as soda-pop to attract youth. Outrageous!

When we were kids we could go to the movies without our parents worrying about what we saw on the screen. Or, whether we got there and home again safely. Now you don't let them past the driveway without an escort. Now we have Amber alerts.

Today over 1/3 of all births are to unmarried women, with the father somewhere "in the wind".

STD's that now cause death.

Quote:
Abortions were unsafe and many died or were permanently harmed

At least half of those who participate are killed and 100% are harmed either mentally or physically. Only more of it happens today. 1.3 million in the US last year alone. Makes me wanna puke.

Quote:
- Priest had thier altar boys (and altar girls if they were available) and of course all sex was denial so you never spoke up (no not a personal experience)
Enemies of the church point this out. Even though it occurred less in the Church than in the general population, the Church gets most of the blame. (ie Boy Scout leaders, teachers, ministers etc)

Marriages are entered into lightly, without due consideration.
(I'll raise my hand here)

When we were kids we had role models. Now we have Tom Cruise.

Letting sexual identity get so tenuous that youth don't know what role to play.

General Douglas McArthur said: History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into economic and political decline. There has neither been a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster.”




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Terrence P. Tuffy

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Or, whether we got there and home again safely.


Terry,
Is this because parents in the 50s were in denial added to the fact that the risks might be grossly exadurated? Look at our new media. They LOVE to promote fear. Americans are armed to the teeth but all they do is fear. I am not convinved the danger to children is any differrent.

Quote:
Drugs and alcohol all over the place! Alcoholic drink disguised as soda-pop to attract youth.


I owuld agree alcahol and drug consumption is up. But we went to a school in Astoria which was the heroin capitol of the world. The "War on Drugs" is a failure. Modern communications allows people to find and experiment and sometimes it is not beneficial.

Quote:
Today over 1/3 of all births today are to unmarried women, with the father somewhere "in the wind".

STD's that now cause death.

I wonder about your statistic about unmarried pregnancies as it seems high. But as you said they are births, not abortions. Some women live in unmarried relationships, like my tenants and they get pregnant. It is a differrent world and it still works. YOur assumption that the father has to be there (though he frequently is) is not necessary. These are PERSONAL choices of a free society.

Quote:
Enemies of the church point this out. Even though it occurred less in the Church than in the general population, the Church gets most of the blame. (ie Boy Scout leaders, teachers, ministers etc)


Here is THE pious institution that institutionally HID the abuses. Let me tell you Terry, I take GREAT satisfaction in every large financial settlement. The Catholic Church promoted hysteria about sex for centuries and now it comes back to bite them in the ass...maybe there is a God after all. We could create a whole thread on this one but to me, the people taking money, the lawyers suing and the Church all smell to me. But better evil against evil. I do think that a priest taking advantage sexually of anyone is like a cop murdering under the cover of authority...it is very bad. But then what do you expect when you have a bunch of horney men with not "legitimate" outlet?

Quote:
Marriages are entered into lightly, without due consideration.
(I'll raise my hand here)


When I was 16 at MC, guys (not necessarily at MC) would look to get married to get laid because that is what you had to do to get laid. That was how we thought. So, marriages were based on hormones instead of a real relationship. Mistakes are made. Tragic is when those mistakes lead to children or a lifetime marriage that is dysfunctional.
Today marriages are more thought out. They still end frequently but they are more full and real. Actually I am hard pressed to think of many freinds I have who have been divorced. I have many who have been in elationships that failed. It is nice to have the time to move the life committment w/o the pressure to get sexual gratification as a motivator.

Quote:
When we were kids we had role models. Now we have Tom Cruise.


Our role models were not real. Mine was John Wayne....turns out he was a drunk and a draft dodger. Tom C. ain't no role model either, what a whacko.

Quote:
Letting sexual identity get so tenuous that youth don't know what role to play.


What role should they play? Yours, The Churches? or thier OWN. Freedom to be yourself. Some guys like dresses, some girls like jeans, try fitting them in other roles and they are as uncomfortable. You play the role you do because it is YOUR nature. Possession of a physical penis does not mean the same to all biological males.

Quote:

General Douglas McArthur said: History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into economic and political decline.


Like whom? Wasn't the "golden age" of the church also known as the "Dark Ages"?

Terry,
You start shifting further to the right and I am writing Herr. Ratzinger to suggest your nomination to the NEW Inquisition as GRAND Inquisitor to help straighten us out 


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Terry,
You start shifting further to the right and I am writing Herr. Ratzinger to suggest your nomination to the NEW Inquisition as GRAND Inquisitor to help straighten us out


And, I'D BE GOOD AT IT TOO! Good night

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Terrence P. Tuffy

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Reply with quote  #34 
Scarey but yes!

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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #35 
Barry, This morning I studied your rebuttal to my rebuttal, and quite frankly, much of what you write is the definition of "UTTER NONSENSE". (I'm tryin' to be nice.)
Your rationalizations are outrageous! 50's parents in denial? What were they? in a coma? You make exceptions the rule. Glossed over Pornography and STD's, serious facts you know are true and can not defend. What? Did you think I wouldn't notice. At least I concurred with some of what you said because it is obviously true. What is it? Are you afraid of loosing some of your liberal identity among your peers? Fathers not necessary? A personal choice? That goes against every sociologist I ever read who wrote on the subject of fatherhood.
It's the CDC that says 36% of all births in the US today are out of wedlock.
Geez, Barry.
Quote:
Today marriages are more thought out. They still end frequently but they are more full and real.
How can,,,, that is so convoluted it's ridiculous.
Then on sexual identity
Quote:
What role should they play?
Men should get a pair for cryin' out loud.
Your tyrannizing paragraph about the Church only serves to prove my point.

I sincerely hope people can see through the "smoke screen" you put up with that post.




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Terrence P. Tuffy

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Reply with quote  #36 

I'm going to attempt to write a post that neither Barry nor Terrence nor Donna nor John can disagree with.

 

I suppose it is inevitable for every generation, upon reaching middle age (which we will do eventually), to conclude the world is going to hell in a hand basket, and that things were better in the old days. Well, I do not necessarily believe that. I see a lot of good in the world today. Medicine has extended the length of our healthy lives. Technology helps us (me, at least) to do things we could only dream of when we were in MC. Fine young people follow in our footsteps, and will make the world better yet.

 

Sure there are problems, some of our own causing. None of us will solve them all, but some of us will solve one or two. We don't all agree on which are the most important, nor even on which are really problems. But we're all passionate.

 

I don't suggest we stop arguing. I love a good argument, as long as it does not get personal. Arguments at least raise our consciousnesses. Let's just channel some of that energy into solving a problem or two, before we become too decrepit.

 

Go fix something, and enjoy life!

TonyCasamento69

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcolarco

 

...Go fix something, and enjoy life!

 

GREAT POST!


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Tony Casamento '69
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Reply with quote  #38 
DITTO! 

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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Go fix something, and enjoy life!


I am. I'm tryin' to fix Barry. But he ain't cooperatin'.

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Terrence P. Tuffy

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
This morning I studied your rebuttal to my rebuttal, and quite frankly, much of what you write is the definition of "UTTER NONSENSE". (I'm tryin' to be nice.)
   You are being nice, we just disagree)

Quote:
Fathers not necessary?

No father is better than a bad one. The reality of life in the 50s were that there were a lot of bad ones. I don't mean to imply that most were bad, but parenting in the 50s was only hands on when it was his hand on you rear.

Quote:
Then on sexual identity
Quote:
What role should they play?
Men should get a pair for cryin' out loud.


Men who "got a pair" in the 50s would not be staying at home making dinner, raising kids  while thier wife supports them. For that matter men had little to do with the house or children.

People are diverse in THIER nature. Trying to get people to fit in to tight role models simply does not work. You ruin the person they are and creat destruction instead of a solid individual.
It takes a truly involved parent to recognise what needs to be nurtured as a part of the person and what needs to be shaped. There are many definitions of success. Many never approved of in the 50s.
I honestly don't understand why you don't accept this. Perhaps you think my definition is way too broad or liberal and we need to have a check off list of success vs. failure. In general, what harms the individual is not a success.

Quote:
Your tyrannizing paragraph about the Church only serves to prove my point.

That was a section that I own myself. It reflects my personal feelings about the church and its history of oppression. I know it is an area that we disagree on but i wanted to be totally candid with you.

Quote:
It's the CDC that says 36% of all births in the US today are out of wedlock

Terry, I was challenging your stat because it seems so high that I was frankly surprised since I don't see it. Thanks for clarifying.

Quote:
Glossed over Pornography and STD's, serious facts you know are true and can not defend.


A few years ago there was a stat that I do beleive, that ~30% of all web traffic was sexual in nature. People, particularly men, are stimulated by visual sexual material. What is the harm in it? As with anything there can be fringes that are extreme and beyond distasteful ( clicked on one sight one time that hit me with a barrage of popups with one picture that was burned into my mind and I wish I could forget it)
Now I have a popup blocker, problem solved for me.
Before the internet porn was paper...it is posted on ancient Roman walls (that is not why Rome fell, Romes fall corresponded with Christianitys rise...Kevin you are our resident historian, verify or dispute teh dates)

STDs are just that...diseases. They are not Gods vengence on those of us having a good time because the vast majority of sexually active people will never have a significant STD (herpes is rampant in the population , not just due to sex, HPV I don't have stats on). The BIG three HIV, Clap, Syph, two of which are curable all of which are preventable through safer sexual practices.

In the 50s contact tracing and sex education were hampered by attitudes on sex.

I will say this Terry, you and I should agree that personal responsibility to take care of ones self in all ways, is lacking more today than in the 50s. There are more liberal cultures on the planet that do not have this trait, at least any wheres near the USA. Cracking down on people like you imply would be like chemotherapy for the culture. The vibrancy of the culture requires freedom. My favorite comparison is Singapore. Singapore looks like it was scrubbed down every night. The government is the Moral God of the people. You have to look long and hard to find porn. You don't need to even look for culture. This is the most sterile place on the planet. It also does not tolerate political dissent well.

I wish I could see you spend a few days at Burningman where culture spings up from people, they all get along and there is less sex and drugs that you would imagine....(less drugs than a rock concert)



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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Go fix something, and enjoy life!


I am fixing cappucino on my Elektra espresso monster!
(I know it looks messy....culture can be messy)



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RFassetta

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Reply with quote  #42 

Just an FYI, cappuccino ,espresso, demitasse,....are Italian creations.

laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #43 
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Just an FYI, cappuccino ,espresso, demitasse,....are Italian creations.


So is my Elektra!

Not shown in the pic because the pic is old, I now have an Elektra grinder as well. The motor alone is 17" tall!


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jcapela

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Reply with quote  #44 

With reference to this thread on the topic of abortion.....  personally, I do not think anyone is really for abortions..... I would like to get all of thise individuals on both sides of this issue to direct their effort not so much at overturning Roe v Wade, but working more towards developing programs to eliminate the need for abortions..... they should focus more on redcuing the numbers of abortions.... and that might include education and support programs for single parents, etc.

 

It is just that we should be more proactive instead of reactive......

 

 


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John Capela '65
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Reply with quote  #45 
I think is right. Abortion is never something one aspires to, and the more people do to prevent it's "necessity" (sorry, couldn't find a better word) the less an issue it will be.
Right on John!
Barry

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