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BobJohnston

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Reply with quote  #61 

Have been sidetracked with a bathroom renovation project and thus away from this interesting form of time passage we share.  However, looking through this particular thread, I've noticed something peculiar.  Here are a group of board members, males all, debating a subject that effects females. 

There are numerous reasons, principles, biological concerns and deciding factors in why a woman would opt for an abortion.  Some are quite petty and selfish, such as wanting to graduate on time, or get a promotion at work.  Yet, some are of real concern and need to be looked at more closely.  Health reasons, both of the mother and fetus/baby could play a major role in such a decision.  Is it fair to bring a baby who will never enjoy life, but be severly handicapped into this world?  Is the father going to stick around to help care for this child?  Too often, the answer is no.  He's going to bolt as soon as he finds out what's going on.  Situations being what they may, can the mother both give this child care and provide for it's upbringing.  Moral dilema, health issues, personal choices and many others must be considered people, not just religious or personal beliefs.

Again, I notice that it's the guys opining on this thread.  What do some of our womenfolk have to say on the subject.  After all, it affects them in so many more ways than it does us.  Ladies, you have the floor and, at least my attention.


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KathiMurphyBayer

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Reply with quote  #62 

I personally believe all life is sacred. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I also would not inflict my personal belief on another person.

 

I guess it comes down to walking a mile in someone else's mocassins. Like Bob said - there can be serious extenuating circumstances - what about the rape victim who becomes pregnant? 

 

My cousin's wife chose to abort a child that would have been born severely physically and mentally handicapped. Did she make the right decision for the child, for herself ?? I believe we have to answer to God for what we do with our lives - good or bad, right or wrong. I don't believe that God makes mistakes. 

 

I was advised to have an amnio test with my last pregnancy due to some issues following blood work . I chose not to have the test - my daughter, thank God was born healthy. It could have gone the other way but I made the decision to trust God.

 

So I do not believe personally in abortion, but I do not condemn those who have gone that route. It is not my place to judge that is left to God to deal with.

 

Kathi 


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #63 
Bob,

You made a great decision renovating the bathroom instead of arguing here (with due respect to my fellow discussion panel, I  too have sinned). I should be working on my bath renovation. (at least I got the toilet in) But that is a seperate thread perhaps for Bob & I to start.

Oh, I agree with your other comments as well.

Barry


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RFassetta

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Reply with quote  #64 

Kathie,

I was listening to discussion between a representative of the Diocese of New York, a priest, and the interviewer. It is my understanding that in cases of rape and incest actions to end the pregnancy are not prohibited in Catholicism.

Also, at least 10 years ago the false-positive rate for results from amniocentesis was 45%. Tests that have a false-positive rate of 5% are considered invalid in the medical-scientific community.

 

 

TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #65 
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a representative of the Diocese of New York, a priest, and the interviewer. It is my understanding that in cases of rape and incest actions to end the pregnancy are not prohibited in Catholicism.


The priest was wrong. Read CCC 2270 -2275

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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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I personally believe all life is sacred. I do not believe in abortion for myself but I also would not inflict my personal belief on another person.


I think pedophiles are getting a bum rap by not being able to express their sexually with young boys and girls. I think we should lower the age of consent to 11.
I am so glad I won't be getting any objection from you because this is my personal belief.


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Terrence P. Tuffy

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #67 
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I am so glad I won't be getting any objection from you because this is my personal belief.


Universal application of standards should have reasons other than what you personally believe. It is in that grey area where we have dispute.

BTW, it is interesting that nature brings sexual maturation at 12 but our children are not prepared to deal with it in our society so we have set it at 18 which is ludicrously high.
The best way to protect adolescents is with information and education so they make thier own informed decisions.


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #68 
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Universal application of standards should have reasons other than what you personally believe.


So when the aftermath is a screwed up kid, because he/she starts sexual activity early that would be a good reason.

A kid killed coming down the birth canal, that would be a good reason.

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which is ludicrously high.

So, I'd guess you'd be in favor of that?

On second thought, what is really ludicrous is that you seemingly advocate conduct for which you condemn Catholic Priests. Most of those sexual acts were consensual sex with teenagers.

Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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Terrence P. Tuffy

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #69 
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On second thought, what is really ludicrous is that you seemingly advocate conduct for which you condemn Catholic Priests. Most of those sexual acts were consensual sex with teenagers.


Actually I condemned the priests and the church for hypocracy and for promoting puritanism more than anything. Secondly, for covering it up, thirdly, for using position to gain advantage. (priests) That is not a level playing field.

I think Europeans teens are far more mature about sexuality than American teens. By falsly protecting them all you do is fail to teach them personal responsibility for thier own sex lives and bodies. The results are obvious....

Without doing extensive surveys, I think most EU countries have consent at 15 or 16. Exceptions are made when it is sex for money.




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KathiMurphyBayer

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Reply with quote  #70 

Terry - I have no words for you that I can print.

 


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #71 
How about for Barry? He wants to lower the age of consent too. But, he's serious about it.
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Terrence P. Tuffy

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KathiMurphyBayer

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Reply with quote  #72 

No comment to either of you.


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #73 
Terry,

When I was a boy I got an allowance of $1/week. I culd do with it what I pleased. My "cousin" was a year or two older. He got $5/week and was responsible for buying his own clothes and various other necessities.
My "uncle" (The kind of uncle who has that status as old family freind rahter than blood) knew that this would teach Francis responsibility for money at an early age. So Francis had more money each week (a handsome sum in those days) but responsibility to use it wisely.
My parents took care of my clothing and shoes and my 1$ was play money so I did not learn what Francis did.
As it turns out Francis may have turned into a schmuck and me the wonderful guy you sort of know, but the point still holds. If you want children to learn responsibility you give them the freedom to fail and the guidance to succeed. If not they become adult age children.
"Protecting" them is like keeping a baby antiseptic and never developing a proper immune system.
Barry

PS My mother bought me polyester pants all through college dealying my development of fashion sense setting me back years looking like a typical engineer....I bet Francis knew how to dress!

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BobJohnston

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Reply with quote  #74 

So Terry, allow me to ask a few questions.  What is the Bible's position on homosexuality?  Is there a position on pedophile homosexuality? On pedophilia itself?   Don't the same Priests who teach and preach adherence to the principles of the Bible follow the course?  Or, like most professions, are there some who revile their profession and commit sins/crimes against both God and man?  When the teachers fail to follow their own teachings, are we to condem the actions of the students who follow suit?  Why is it humane to end the life of a suffering animal, but not a suffering human?

Life is the most precious gift there is.  But ,what of the life that cannot see, feel, comprehend, sense or exist unless it is kept alive by machine and drug therapy?  Is that really a life?  Or, is it man playing God, by circumventing His plan and keeping that life artificially alive in the name of humanity and medicine?

The Bible was written using the morals and ideals of the times.  Written by men who were intreperting God's wishes, in their own beliefs and opinions, based on the accepted morals of their times.  Technology has surapssed all concievable thoughts these people had, thus needs adjusting.  We can debate the issue until the next century, but by then our own thoughts will have been rendered moot by science and technology.  By then, a woman won't need to get pregnant at all, just go to the "Baby Store" and pick out the artificially concieved and produced child of her choice. 

Right now, there are programs to tweak the genetics of babies in the womb.  It certainly interfers with the original plan God had for it.  Is this any more proper than aborting a child who will never have a chance at a fulfilling life? 

Abortion is, and should remain, a woman's choice. 


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TonyCasamento69

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Reply with quote  #75 
I think its time to end this thread.  I may get some grief but its always "damned if I do and damned if I don't."

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