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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #16 
Obama continues to move to the center.



Obama shifts position on offshore oil drilling

Aug 2, 1:44 AM (ET)

By MIKE GLOVER

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.
Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy.
.......

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Tony71

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrencePTuffyLSA69
Obama continues to move to the center.


I'm much happier with Obama's moving to the center than McCain's moves further right.

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Reply with quote  #18 

Ok this my problem and again i'm not the brightest bulb in the bunch. During primary year and a half Obama tells us his position on certain issues ( immigration , the war , oil drilling etc etc) The people vote in the primaries on those stated positions. If they were different ( or where they have now moved to be ) there is a possibilities that Hillary ( or one of the other guys) might have gotten that vote. The voters in a particular state should have the right to tell their delegates hey we don't agree with this guy anymore , he basically told us what we wanted to hear and shifted to what the next guy wanted to hear when he got to the next stop. Don't support this guy at the convention he lied to us. Support someone who will act in a beneficial manner to us on the issues that we feel are important to our state. That's how you get compromise candidates and what used to be called platforms. If our "plank isn't included you don't get our votes" That was when the conventions were actually the place where the decisions were made. It seems to me now the convention is basically a coronation of the chosen one. This demise of the convention process ( and importance) seems to indicate that the political process ( primaries / nominations) as we know it has eroded to the point where the big decisions are made on luxury jets as speeches are tailored to fit the next stop on the "trail of lies tour" !! 


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #19 
That sums it up pretty good.
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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #20 

Tom,

 

Your right. It seems in the primaries today the candidates of both parties, but especially the Democrats, have to please the extreme edge of their party. Diehards are about he only ones who really get involved in the primary process. What was jfk, the 2nd most liberal Senator when he ran; Edwards the 5th in 04’; and BO the most liberal today? That says something about who control the primary process in the Democratic party and makes you wonder at how radical Obams' four months career must appear.

 

With BO there is absolutely no record of any achievement in his political career or in his time in academia. So all that the asses, excuse me, I mean masses have to go on is his rhetoric and his personal history.  And they, to me, cancel each other out. His rhetoric is pleasant but it’s when looked at it proves meaningless and void of any central policies.  His history of associations is odious and very meaningful, and when they are looked at prove more and more troublesome in many ways. Those relationships are the only way to judge a man of ‘words just words’ who has no accomplishments.

 

While people do change positions because the realities change ($4 a gallon gas comes to mind) too often candidates change as a result of polls or it was their strategy to switch.  Obama’s positions all been formed during his campaign if not for his campaign and they were presented as his core beliefs. It’s hard to see what are the new un-thought of developments have occurred in the last three months that have caused such earth shifts in BO “core beliefs,” or at least as those core beliefs appear to be this week. 

“Here comes the orator! With his flood of words, and his drop of reason.”  - Ben Franklin


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Tony71

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Reply with quote  #21 
Post removed as off-topic and shifted to McCan thread.

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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
A few of McCain's changes:



I thought you were posting on the "McCain" thread.


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Terrence P. Tuffy

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Tony71

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrencePTuffyLSA69
Quote:
A few of McCain's changes:



I thought you were posting on the "McCain" thread.


You are correct and I have shifted it over.

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Reply with quote  #24 

How out of touch is Barack Obama? He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point, Rush Limbaugh is having a field day, and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.

But who's really out of touch? The Bush administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 barrels per day by 2030. We use about 20 million barrels per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage by 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone else did, we could reduce demand several percentage points immediately. In other words: Obama is right.


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Tony71

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Reply with quote  #25 
Yes Conservatives, Inflated Tires Beats Coastal Drilling

Bill Scher
August 4, 2008 | 01:01 PM (EST)

The latest conservative lie -- regarding Sen. Barack Obama and fuel efficiency -- actually has a great amount of truth to it.

On Thursday, conservative radio host Sean Hannity claimed Obama said, "All you need to do is inflate your tires. That's all you need to do. If every American would join in this effort, of inflating one's tires, then it's all going to be fine. And we can still import 70% of our oil from Saudi Arabia. Just keep those tires inflated."

Conservatives -- lovers of childish mockery over substantive ideas -- later today are apparently planning to distribute tire gauges at an Obama energy event.

And earlier today on MSNBC's Morning Joe, conservative hack economist (who does not hold an economics degree) Larry Kudlow, a very loud advocate of coastal drilling, said of Obama's comments about tires, "That's not really much of a policy."

No, it's not. That was Obama's point.

Obama's actual comment last week was:

...we could save all the oil they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires, and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much.

He was decidedly not saying "all you need to do" is inflate your ties, or "my entire energy policy" is inflating your tires.

(Obama has a much larger energy plan -- articulated in a sweeping speech today -- centered on investment in renewable energy and fuel efficiency technology. Similarly, it would not be fair to say Sen. John McCain's "entire" energy policy is coastal drilling, when he is also advocating loosening regulations on nuclear power and a contest to promote battery technology.)

Obama was observing that coastal drilling would save us so little oil and so little money even twenty years from now, that you can actually save more money immediately by doing "simple things" such as keeping your tires properly inflated.

Where did he get that crazy idea? From George Bush's Energy Department and Environmental Protection Agency. (hat tip: Get Energy Smart! Now!)

Their joint site fueleconomy.gov is loaded with fuel-saving, money-saving tips. Keep your tires properly inflated, for example, and you can save up to 12 cents a gallon.

Compare that immediate savings from that single tip, with what coastal and Arctic National Wildlife Refuge drilling combined would get you two decades from now: 6 cents a gallon.

And that's being generous, because Bush's Energy Department says we can't expect any impact on prices from coastal drilling until the year 2030.

In their knee-jerk mockery, conservatives are flying closer to the truth then they intend to.

Inflating your ties does not amount to an energy policy. It's just more of a policy than coastal drilling, since unlike drilling for a tiny amount of oil, it would at least save us some money now.

A real energy policy would provide us consumers with a energy choice besides buying huge amounts of increasingly expensive oil. Maybe if conservative Senators stopped filibustering every proposal that would help provide such choices, and force their Big Oil donors to face some competition, we could get somewhere.


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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony71
(Obama has a much larger energy plan -- articulated in a sweeping speech today --


The problem is all his 'policies' are articulated in sweeping speeches and then reversed in another sweeping speech a week latter. WORDS JUST WORDS.

When people site McCain's flips-flops they cite policies from decades ago, (very important key issues like the MLK holiday) Obama's positions have all been formed and "articulated" during his campaign, the only thing he has done in his political life. It seems these positions have only been formulated to get him elected and therefore  are changed as polling indicate.

But rather than constantly harp on negatives let's go positive and cite some of Obama non-rhetoric accomplishments. Anything other than words just words.

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Tony71

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Reply with quote  #27 
As for me, his two greatest accomplishments are that he is the only candidate who voted against the invasion of Iraq and he is not Bush II



Otherwise, here's a cut/paste on some accomplishments:

His bold legislative work on the Illinois Death Penalty, and how he made a difference between life and death:
http://www.icadp.org/page236.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/12/obama.death.penalty.ap /

His sponsorship of a bill that brought health insurance to 150,000, including 70,000 uninsured Children, again, during his time serving in the Illinois Statehouse:
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/fact_check_on_milbanks_claim_t.php
http://mediamatters.org/items/200712170003

His work on both the Immigration bill during his time in the US senate and his sponsorship of Ethics legislation (something he did both while in the State House, and in the Senate) that called for some of the most impactful reform regarding lobbyists since Watergate (as he likes to term it):
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/14/fact_check_on_milbanks_claim_t.php
http://feingold.senate.gov/%7Efeingold/releases/07/01/20070108.html

Here’s a chart of many of his accomplishments during his 8 years in the Illinois state house -


and his sponsored and co sponsored Bills in the U.S. Senate.......which include worthwhile bills dealing with a wide range of issues, from Election reform bills to the Cooperative Proliferation Detection reduction Act (w/t Sen. Lugar) to Internet database transparency Act.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/271 /
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/November/20051101170118adynned0.8910791.html
http://obama.senate.gov/press/060908-senate_passes_c /

http://thomas.loc.gov / (Select Obama’s name from the Senator drop down)

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Reply with quote  #28 

Virtue is a state of war, and to live in it we have always to combat with ourselves.


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Reply with quote  #29 

Thoughtful and interesting piece by Mr. Brooks.

 

Where’s the Landslide?

Published: August 5, 2008

Why isn’t Barack Obama doing better? Why, after all that has happened, does he have only a slim two- or three-point lead over John McCain, according to an average of the recent polls? Why is he basically tied with his opponent when his party is so far ahead?

His age probably has something to do with it. So does his race. But the polls and focus groups suggest that people aren’t dismissive of Obama or hostile to him. Instead, they’re wary and uncertain.

And the root of it is probably this: Obama has been a sojourner. He opened his book “Dreams From My Father” with a quotation from Chronicles: “For we are strangers before thee, and sojourners, as were all our fathers.”

There is a sense that because of his unique background and temperament, Obama lives apart. He put one foot in the institutions he rose through on his journey but never fully engaged. As a result, voters have trouble placing him in his context, understanding the roots and values in which he is ineluctably embedded.

Last week Jodi Kantor of The Times described Obama’s 12 years at the University of Chicago Law School. “The young law professor stood apart in too many ways to count,” Kantor wrote.

He was a popular and charismatic professor, but he rarely took part in faculty conversations or discussions about the future of the institution. He had a supple grasp of legal ideas, but he never committed those ideas to paper by publishing a piece of scholarship.

He was in the law school, but not of it.

This has been a consistent pattern throughout his odyssey. His childhood was a peripatetic journey through Kansas, Indonesia, Hawaii and beyond. He absorbed things from those diverse places but was not fully of them.

His college years were spent on both coasts. He was a community organizer for three years but left before he could be truly effective. He became a state legislator, but he was in the Legislature, not of it. He had some accomplishments, but as Ryan Lizza of The New Yorker wrote, he was famously bored by the institution and used it as a stepping stone to higher things.

He was in Trinity United Church of Christ, but not of it, not sharing the liberation theology that energized Jeremiah Wright Jr. He is in the United States Senate, but not of it. He has not had the time nor the inclination to throw himself into Senate mores, or really get to know more than a handful of his colleagues. His Democratic supporters there speak of him fondly, but vaguely.

And so it goes. He is a liberal, but not fully liberal. He has sometimes opposed the Chicago political establishment, but is also part of it. He spoke at a rally against the Iraq war, while distancing himself from many antiwar activists.

This ability to stand apart accounts for his fantastic powers of observation, and his skills as a writer and thinker. It means that people on almost all sides of any issue can see parts of themselves reflected in Obama’s eyes. But it does make him hard to place.

When we’re judging candidates (or friends), we don’t just judge the individuals but the milieus that produced them. We judge them by the connections that exist beyond choice and the ground where they will go home to be laid to rest. Andrew Jackson was a backwoodsman. John Kennedy had his clan. Ronald Reagan was forever associated with the small-town virtues of Dixon and Jimmy Carter with Plains.

It is hard to plant Obama. Both he and his opponent have written coming-of-age tales about their fathers, but they are different in important ways. McCain’s “Faith of My Fathers” is a story of a prodigal son. It is about an immature boy who suffers and discovers his place in the long line of warriors that produced him. Obama’s “Dreams From My Father” is a journey forward, about a man who took the disparate parts of his past and constructed an identity of his own.

If you grew up in the 1950s, you were inclined to regard your identity as something you were born with. If you grew up in the 1970s, you were more likely to regard your identity as something you created.

If Obama is fully a member of any club — and perhaps he isn’t — it is the club of smart post-boomer meritocrats. We now have a cohort of rising leaders, Obama’s age and younger, who climbed quickly through elite schools and now ascend from job to job. They are conscientious and idealistic while also being coldly clever and self-aware. It’s not clear what the rest of America makes of them.

So, cautiously, the country watches. This should be a Democratic wipeout. But voters seem to be slow to trust a sojourner they cannot place.


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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #30 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony71
As for me, his two greatest accomplishments are that he is the only candidate who voted against the invasion of Iraq and he is not Bush II

I think it is indicative of the ‘thin’ resume to say not being someone else should be considered an accomplishment.  And while it may be what BO means to imply, I don’t think he ever actually voted against the war.  I‘m not too sure they held a vote on the invasion of Iraq in the Illinois Senate.
 
It seems Obama, even to the well informed = confusion (and vacillation too)

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