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Let the flip-flopping begin!

 

Here in Colorado, there are two ways to pass a state law - the legislative process, and by referendum from the people. We had a referendum issue on the ballot that provided for creating a domestic partnership system for same-sex couples. It failed.

 

Bill Ritter, democrat guvnur-elect, campaigned on (among other things) the promise that, even if the domestic partnership referendum failed, he would sign a bill doing the same thing should the legislature present him with one. Since both houses are controlled by democrats, this seemed a distinct possibility. I suppose a few people voted for Bill based on this position.

 

Well, Bill's crew weren't even finished mopping up the spilled champagne at his victory party when Bill announced he was reneging on his promise, saying, and I quote, "The people have spoken."

 

A brave new world indeed.

TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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DanWillett67

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Reply with quote  #3 

That is indeed disappointing but it proves the old say that you can tell when a politician is lying to you when he's moving his lips.



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Dan,

 

I did not mean to imply I'm the least bit disappointed in Ritter's actions. I'm just reporting the news. In fact, I voted against the referendum and I'm pleased the new guv is not going to go against the will of the people. I just find it amusing how quickly he changed his tune after he had the election in the bag. If I had known he was going to flip like this, I might even have voted for him!

JimDavis

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Taxes will go up regardless of Howard Dean's promise not

to increase taxes on the middle class. The rich will have their tax-exempt programs, the poor will not have enough income to qualify for

income taxes, leaving the middle class to pay the most.

 

The war will continue; Congress has never voted to cut off funding for our

troops at war, which is the only way the war can end quickly.  Troops must

be paid, fed, and supplied with arms; even moving them out will cost billions.

If Islamic extremists attack us again outside of Afganistan or Iraq (a series

of attacks against US Embassies or another attack here) both

American parties will come out fighting: they will have no choice, particularly

the Democrats who will be on the spot.

 

Gasoline prices will continue to rise; it's just a matter of supply and demand,

and governments will love the increased revenue from the gasoline taxes.

 

The day the new Congress comes into power, the House will begin raising money to run again in two years.  They will be (once again) beholden to

the "special interests."  Election finance reform will be small potatoes, with

the lawyers in government figuring out how to create loopholes that they

can work around.

 

As long as oil and natural gas fuels our way of life, we will deal with the

Middle East.  And any attempts (or precieved attempts) to limit our supply

will be met with economic and/or military force.

 

The new Democratic Congress will not be as controllable as Ms. Speaker

of the House believes.  Firstly, many of the new Democratic Representatives

are Middle of the Road to Conservative, and while the House leadership will

be very old line Liberal, don't be surprised if some of these new Dems switch

over to vote Republican on some issues.  The Democratic Senate hinges on

Independents voting their way.  Joseph Lieberman owes his "Friends" who

walked out on him nothing.  He will caucus with the Democrats, but he will

easily vote with Republicans, since they are greatly responsible for his

re-election.

 

SAMMY67

TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Quote:
the ballot that provided for creating a domestic partnership system for same-sex couples. It failed.


Suits will be brought for equal treatment. The court will tell the legislature to come up with some accommodation.

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RussellDoucetteof73

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrencePTuffyLSA69

Suits will be brought for equal treatment. The court will tell the legislature to come up with some accommodations.

And gay groups will put pressure on legislatures to come up with accommodations or be replaced at the next elections.


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Terrence,

 

If this were NY or Connecticut, I might agree with you. However, a small majority of the electorate here in flyover country realized that everything the homosexual lobby was after is already available under current law. All the referendum would have accomplished was de facto acknowledgment of homosexual marriage. And that Colorado is not quite ready for. Yet.

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The accomodation will be laws using the term "domestic union" or something

close.  The laws will state that the term "marriage" for hetrosexuals, and

"domestic union" for homosexuals are totally equal under law, and entitle all

to the same rights, privileges and responsibilties.  It is the only way this

issue will be solved anytime soon, which is still a state issue.

 

The concept of "Separate, But Equal" will be presented.  Constant oversight

will be necessary; but we've come a long way since those days.

 

By the way, the Federal Government only recognizes hetrosexual unions;

therefore such benefits as Social Security will still be up in the air.  It will

be necessary for a Supreme Court decision and/or Federal legislation, including a possible Constitutional amendment, to make the Federal laws

equal to the states.  This will only happen, when a majority of the states

pass domestic union/marriage laws.  It will be grass roots, just as women

voting and the popular election of US Senators were in the not so distant past.

 

SAMMY67

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Reply with quote  #10 
 
 

I Must preface this with the fact, my point is not to start a tirade or an argument, just to set the record straight.

 

The first line of this thread started with the words... "flip-flopping"....a term that of recent has been associated with the Democrats......

 

Yesterday afternoon at his first press conference after the election "Our" president was asked why a week previous he emphatically stated that the vice-president & Rumsfeld were DEFIANTLY staying on board with him till his tenure was completed in two years. So what caused his change of heart on Rumsfeld??  His first answer was....he didn't want to affect the moral of the troops.  Later on during the SAME press conference, he was asked the same question again..this time his answer was he didn't want to affect the outcome of the election.  On national TV for the world to see,"Our" president ADMITTED TO MISLEADING & LYING to the American public.

 

I have a theoretical question . What is the difference between misleading & lying?  And more important when is selective misleading/lying the right thing to do. Isn't that what got us in this horrific mess in the first place????

 

I pray to God this flip-flopping & misleading/lying will finally come to an abrupt hault.

 

.....So we can go forward with >>>A Brave New World...

 

Bring our troops home & fix up the mess our new House & Senate has been left with. The Democrats don't have all the answers, in fact I think they have very few.  I don't think any one except God can do anything....I think a better start ...we pray for some enlightment , we need that more than anything....


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #11 
Rich,
I am sorry both for your vote and for the governors change in stance. The governor dissapoints both because the people spoke electing him and that the rights of minorities or even majorities should not be at risk from "democratic" processes. Blacks would still be in the back of the bus on the way to segregated schools if it were up to the southern states (attitudes are differrent now, but due to the changes forced on them).

I am thrilled that the democrats took back the government from the the radical and incompetent right. Now we have to try to get them not to be as stupid as who they replaced. I am confident no one could follow that act but skeptical that brilliance can shine. I am glad the plurality in both houses is not overwhelming as we have seen for the past 12 years how damaging and careless "government" can be when imbalanced and run by power hungry arrogant types with no oversight.
My problem is that if the democrats don't do a lot better job, there is no one to replace them!
Until we have REAL election reform, we will have virtual criminals in office who are legally bribed. I would happily double thier salaries if I could guarantee that it was we the people paying them instead of all the monied interests.
Gay marriage, Flag Burning, page jumping, etc....these are NOT important issues. Normalize gay marriage and after a few months it will no longer be noticed, as true in every other country that has done so. Buy flags for veterans that get pissed about others burning thiers just let it go.
FIX:
Health Care systems and Insurance
Peace to the Middle East (and you can forget terrorism after that)
Disarm the planet (now THAT will make us safer)
Deal with Alternative fuels solutions as a MAJOR push to replace fossil fuels
Rebalance the tax system to get teh rich to pay thier fair share and no more off shoring profits!
Restore our FULL Consitutional Rights (No I don't trust our government)
Prepare for Social Security...we are the richest nation on the planet and we are in deficit due to wars and military profiteering.....spend money on the people!

I wish I could hope for these things to come to pass, but we are a nation of sound bites that elects actors and  football coaches to the senate (fixed that one) instead of the intellectually capable people who will govern instead of cheerlead.
We will see over the next 2 years how much things improve....


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Reply with quote  #12 

Barry,

 

I'm certainly willing to give the Dems a shot. The Republicans have not impressed me. But, then, neither did the Dems when they had the stick.

 

Maybe I'm just getting old. I really don't have much optimism.

JimDavis

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Reply with quote  #13 

As one commentator said during the Monica/Bill era:

"A politician lying to us; what a surprise!"

 

SAMMY67

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
I'm certainly willing to give the Dems a shot. The Republicans have not impressed me. But, then, neither did the Dems when they had the stick.


Rich,
I really don't mean to be partisan here but if you go back to the issues I mentioned above, which I will bet we are not far apart in what matters, the dems last run at bat was way better than the Republicans were recently.
Progress was being made on Middle East peace.
Iraqi/Saddam intentions were being contained successfully.
Surplus (which would have turned mildy to deficit as the econmy drooped)
World respect was high
CAFE standards were raised

Health reform was blocked by the Republican congress ( you are free to argue the merits of the program but the direction was there)
Republicans (Mitch McConnell) blocked election finance reform

Republican accomplishments to the list above:
Habeus Corpus suspension (Constitutional rights)
Modest Medicare drug benefit (Health care reform)
War
International condemnation
Boost in terror risk due to war etc. (National Security assessment report)
Deficits ballooning
CAFE standards needed to be raised and applied to truck like SUVs and that was blocked.


Now that I have sounded partisan let me say that there are Dems to blame for some of this as well but the Republicans have been in total power.
I look back at the 60s, 70s dominance of power and saw a lot of the same abuses with Democrats.....(which is why I voted Republican then)

It was interesting watching Dick Armey's analysis of things on the Leher report. He seemed so objective and mellow now that he is no longer in power. What happens to people that thier good judgement disappears when the have to get elected.

All in all Rich, like you I am willing to give the Dems a chance. Unlike you, my fear is that there is no good alternative if they screw it up! (and I do have that fear)


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BobJohnston

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Reply with quote  #15 

The big flip flop is on!!  Here in New York, there is some kind of investigation into whether Hevesi, the Comptroller, misused both his office and influence in using a state worker as personal chauffer for his wife.  His claim was a threat on her life, which the State Police investigated and found unfounded.  Governor elect Spitzer ordered him to repay much more than he originally did and thought was enough to quiet the people.  A special investigator, a former federal prosecuter and democrat himself, found ethics laws were indeed breached and there were more than sufficient grounds to have him removed from office.

Surprise!  He got re-elected and the democratic speaker of the house is now reluctant to request he step down as the "people" have spoken.  Will our new Attorney General, Cuomo jr., continue the investigation?  Will Hevesi do the right thing and step down, now that having been re-elected, the democratic assembly and senate will be able to appoint a democrat to the office?  Will Spitzer honor his platform's mandate of doing the right thing and ask him to step down?  Stay tuned!


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