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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #16 
One silly religion is as 'good' as another....you either vote for all of em or against all of em. I wonder what the toll was for those who voted FOR Xmas and against Ramadan? That should be included for completeness....not that Congressional endorsements have any bearing at all....

Quote:

  Off the top of my head, I don't know who many of my local representives are, let alone what religion they profess.


This is how it was for 200 years and we did just fine. Then the religious intolerance police arrived from the evangelicals and ones ability to deny evolution etc became the critical test for office.

Ability to govern has become quite unimportant...and it showed in Katrina and Iraq. It shows in our inability to address major forward issues like energy which threatens our lifestyle far more than any terrorist.

We all generally knew that politicians were some form of practicing or non-practicing Protestants because Jews and Catholics seemed to be excluded until the later half of the last century. I don't recall a single president, off the top of my head, making "God" statements other than throw away lines like "God help us".....

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #17 

Yo Barry woke up looking to pick a fight ? Noticed the word silly before religion and noticed the Xmas instead of the Christmas that John used in his statement . The point ( as I see it ) was the choice . Your point is correct , If it was you voting I would expect you to vote no or not to vote on any of them. Those that voted for Ramadan must have a huge Muslim constituency providing funding or support for either them or interests in their districts that they are trying to please. Why else would anyone bend over backwards to "diss" Christianity and help promote the Muslim faith . Of course there may be people ( other congressman and their districts)  or areas they felt it would annoy enough to alienate against future bills , resolutions or laws. If they felt the whole idea was stupid they should have ignored it.

Not to be mean or sound tough but what neighborhood did you hang in growing up Barry ? Unless you developed the "attitude" after you left the area , I don't see how you would have survived being so down right annoying during your formative years. 

I agree with your right to say it. But sometimes the way you say it isn't very nice. ( If that is your goal , you certainly have succeeded ! )

Then of course the answer that pops into my head after re-reading the above paragraph ! You were a fast little s.o.b. so you learned to lob and run , that's how you made it to adulthood the insulted or infuriated couldn't catch you. !!!   


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #18 
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I don't see how you would have survived being so down right annoying during your formative years.


Actually I was much worse before when I was a conservative, but not as bad as Kerins. Ask John Capela.....he knew me then.

Tom,

The "Xmas" is what I write naturally. Everytime I write "Christmas" it is by intervention to soothe feelings here on the board. As for the term "silly" it definitely reflects my view. We used to laugh at the silly rituals of all those primitive peoples of the world before converting them. But really our "religions" were so similar that any social anthropologist would find them different only in the level of development which mirrored our greater human and cultural development. The surity people have in their faith is usually proportional to their need for it rather than their proof of it. But that and intended to reflect the reasons, for you, that I chose that word.

As I have told Terry many times, I am REALLY happy for him that his religious experience brings him happiness. I offer the same to you.

I think it is perfectly offer a meaningless Congressional resolution to Moslems. But I also feel that it should be on an equal basis to all religions. If I were in congress the wording would make all the difference. Perhaps, and I don't know, the one for Christmas was more of an endorsement of religion than simply recognizing it. JK never had the text of the two resolutions ....what would you do if you were in Congress?

Barry

PS Perhaps we could get into more depth over a good glass of wine....

PPS
Quote:
‘recognize the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.’


Apples to apples this is NOT....one is arguably an endorsement of a religion, the other simply recognizes the festival of the year...there is a big differrence ....but then I have not read the whole "bill".

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #19 
I would have voted for them all and if I had to explained my vote to my constituency, I would have quoted my belief that this is a  country founded on the sweat and blood of people who came here to escape religious persecution and the freedom guaranteed by the Constitution to  worship the God of their choice.
I for one am going to send emails to the NY people on the list and ask for an explanation. If I get any sort of a reply I will post it.  

  

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #20 

RESOLUTION

Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan , the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, and commending Muslims in the United States and throughout the world for their faith.

Whereas since the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, threats and incidents of violence have been directed at law-abiding, patriotic Americans of African, Arab, and South Asian descent, particularly members of the Islamic faith;

Whereas, on September 14, 2001, the House of Representatives passed a concurrent resolution condemning bigotry and violence against Arab-Americans, American Muslims, and Americans from South Asia in the wake of the terrorist attacks;

Whereas it is estimated that there are approximately 1,500,000,000 Muslims worldwide;

Whereas Ramadan is the holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal for Muslims worldwide, and is the 9th month of the Muslim calendar year; and

Whereas the observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan commences at dusk on September 13, 2007, and continues for one lunar month: Now, therefore, be it

    Resolved, That--

      (1) during this time of conflict, in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world; and

      (2) in observance of and out of respect for the commencement of Ramadan , the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, the House of Representatives acknowledges the onset of Ramadan and expresses its deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this significant occasion.



  

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #21 

H. Res. 847

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

December 11, 2007.

Whereas Christmas , a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its Judeo-Christian roots;

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas , the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore, be it

    Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

      (1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

      (2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

      (3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

      (4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

      (5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

      (6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.

 

 


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JohnByrne71

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Reply with quote  #22 
It is not surprising that these congressmen voted the way they did. They're politically correct cowards. Besides, they have nothing to fear from Christians. On the other hand, Muslims have shown to be pro-active in protesting all things involving Islam. Theo van Gogh is just one example.
laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
I would have voted for them all and if I had to explained my vote to my constituency, I would have quoted my belief that this is a  country founded on the sweat and blood of people who came here to escape religious persecution and the freedom guaranteed by the Constitution to  worship the God of their choice.


Bravo to your sentiment here Tom. The reason for the pro Ramadan resolution was based, I beleive, in the concept that Moslems have been unfairly targeted in the USA for blame on things that they are totally NOT responsible for. This created an 'us vs them' mentality throughout the USA that is destructive to the basic fairness that our Constitution and nation are based on and aspire to.  Further, it is the very WORST strategy to use when dealing with an enemy that is a small minority within another community, when trying to isolate them from support in their greater community. Many, (including some on this board) just don't get it. Setting up a religious war between Islam and Christianity would reverse centuries of progress send us into a dark ages deeper than the last stupid Crusade.

So, I think the Christmas resolution was likely a Christian PC response, rather than necessary for any real reason. It is kind of like the City of NY having a Heterosexual Pride Week declared the week after Gay Pride Week.....or White Pride Week after Black Pride Week. They just don't get it.


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #24 
In the end, inspite of the passage or blockage of these meaningless bill in Congress, Terry will celebrate Christmas happy and content in all he believes in, Tom will do so in the way he he feels best, and I will in the way that I like to do. The good news is that we do not have an Inquisition to break down our doors and burn us as witches, we don't have a dictator demanding there be no religion, we don't have a Mullah hanging or beheading anyone who speaks ill of Jesus or Mohamed. I think that is great and what we should celebrate.

If only we could solve our energy crisis so easily....maybe if people cared as much as for the meaningless issues....


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #25 
SWEET!

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #26 
So I guess the other side of the aisle will have to lobby for a Strawberry or blueberry syrup day !!!

Aunt Jamima pancakes without the syrup is like the spring without the fall theres only one thing worse in this universe and thats no Aunt Jamima's at all.  

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #27 
Tom,

Make sure it is REAL maple syrup not that corn sugar maple flavored crap....Right Terry?

Barry


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Congress deemed today National Maple Syrup Day too.


Quote:
Make sure it is REAL maple syrup not that corn sugar maple flavored crap....Right Terry?


Geez.... the sap doesn't run till March! Everyone in VT knows that N.M.S.D. is in the spring. Right now it's only 1 deg. Not only is this a "do nothing Congress" it doesn't know anything about maple syrup. ;(

Yup, nothin' can compare to the real deal, just ask the WebGuy.

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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #29 

Barry,

 

First when Tom says something about you, try to stand on your own two feet. Don’t bring me into it.  You’ve got to overcome your fixation with me.

 

Second, how is it that Tom or I or just about anyone but you can find the actual SOURCE documents for various point we make, but seemingly you can’t? Your aversion to facts seems really quite debilitating!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
I wonder what the toll was for those who voted FOR Xmas and against Ramadan? That should be included for completeness.
 
 

It’s not hard to find, all you have to do is look it up. On Oct 2 07 the House adapted a resolution to recognize the Muslim holy month of Ramadan and expressing the deepest respect to Muslims in the US and throughout the world. That vote was 376 to 0 (with 14 not voting and 42 voting ‘present’). None voted against the resolution. I guess the Christians in the House were more tolerant then, than the secular progressives were the other day. And the answer to your specific question, of the nine who voted against the Christmas resolution eight voted for the Ramadan resolution and one hadn't voted on the Ramadan one. Amazing what you can find if you bother to look for the facts.

 

Third, implying that our country has not been a religious one you spout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
This is how it was for 200 years and we did just fine. Then the religious intolerance police arrived from the evangelicals and ones ability to deny evolution etc became the critical test for office…. I don't recall a single president, off the top of my head, making "God" statements other than throw away lines like "God help us"
 

YOU”VE GOT TO BE KIDDING! Have you ever read any US history? Apparently not, and that would explain a lot.  Congress and the Supreme Court start EACH session with a prayer, and have done so for the last 200 plus years. Pick any three presidents and I’ll find you a SOURCE documents wherein they make “God “ statements asking or thanking for God’s blessings on this nation! You know, this one nation under God, that trusts in God, etc., etc., etc. You are in another world!


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TonyCasamento69

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerrencePTuffyLSA69

Yup, nothin' can compare to the real deal, just ask the WebGuy.


Ah, yes.   My favorite Vermonter (not to be confused with my favorite varmint) and maple syrup connection sent me some a while back.  Tough to go back to the grocery store stuff.

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