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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #31 
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Congress and the Supreme Court start EACH session with a prayer, and have done so for the last 200 plus years.


John, John, John.....this is nothing of significance any more than the sill resolutions you got all worked up about. Until GWB we never had a president who saw himself as God's choice, had secret meetings with religious fanatics, But then you are not into honest deliberation of "facts" only the misuse to distort the reality so this has probably passed you by...


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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #32 
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Tough to go back to the grocery store stuff.


So, the 100% Maple Syrup I buy at TJs is not as good as what they have in Vermont? To think I was just there and able to stop and buy some! Tell me my stuff is as good


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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #33 
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Originally Posted by laguna_b
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Congress and the Supreme Court start EACH session with a prayer, and have done so for the last 200 plus years.


John, John, John.....this is nothing of significance any more than the sill resolutions


Nothing significant to you, only to the Congress and the Supreme Court. It certainly proves what a secular background our government was formed in LOL

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Originally Posted by laguna_b
 Until GWB we never had a president who saw himself as God's choice, had secret meetings with religious fanatics...



"I ask once again to be able to love my neighbor - all my neighbors - as my self, to be an instrument of God's peace; to let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart and, in the end, the work of my hands, be pleasing. This is what I wanted to say to you today" Bill Clinton 9/11/1998 - just a quick example there are many more, but I have to go to diner.


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Originally Posted by laguna_b

But then you are not into honest deliberation of "facts" only the misuse to distort the reality so this has probably passed you by...


You are not into recognition of facts, only your biased, unfounded delusions.

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #34 
Yeah John, just the facts....just like the ones you made up about the South Pole.....

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JohnKerins66

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Reply with quote  #35 

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Originally Posted by laguna_b
Yeah John, just the facts....just like the ones you made up about the South Pole.....


Barry I wouldn't make things up. That's your forte. Look at the chart I posted and then you can apologize. But I won't hold my breath.

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #36 
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But I won't hold my breath.


Try it for 5 minutes...we will all breathe easier 


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tom70

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Reply with quote  #37 
Originally Posted by laguna_b
This is how it was for 200 years and we did just fine. Then the religious intolerance police arrived from the evangelicals and ones ability to deny evolution etc became the critical test for office…. I don't recall a single president, off the top of my head, making "God" statements other than throw away lines like "God help us"

I read this and it stuck in my mind. I thought you were wrong about this Barry. I always remembered reading a lot of "God" references by Presidents. I took a few minutes and Googled a few inaugural speeches from Presidents I thought were important at least in their time. Washington , Lincoln ,  both Roosevelts , Truman , Eisenhower , Kennedy and Regan. I am taking the liberty to post excerpts that I found interesting and contrary to your memory. These are the only seven I looked up. I don't think it is a coincidence or luck that I found what I found.

 

Washington's Inaugural Speech, 1789
 
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.
 

First Inaugural Address

March 4, 1861
Washington, D.C.       Abe Lincoln

My countrymen, one and all, think calmly and well, upon this whole subject. Nothing valuable can be lost by taking time. If there be an object to hurry any of you, in hot haste, to a step which you would never take deliberately, that object will be frustrated by taking time; but no good object can be frustrated by it. Such of you as are now dissatisfied still have the old Constitution unimpaired, and, on the sensitive point, the laws of your own framing under it; while the new administration will have no immediate power, if it would, to change either. If it were admitted that you who are dissatisfied, hold the right side in the dispute, there still is no single good reason for precipitate action. Intelligence, patriotism, Christianity, and a firm reliance on Him, who has never yet forsaken this favored land, are still competent to adjust, in the best way, all our present difficulty.

 

Theodore Roosevelt

Inaugural Address

Saturday, March 4, 1905
 
  My Fellow-citizens, no people on earth have more cause to be thankful than ours, and this is said reverently, in no spirit of boastfulness in our own strength, but with gratitude to the Giver of Good who has blessed us with the conditions which have enabled us to achieve so large a measure of well-being and of happiness. To us as a people it has been granted to lay the foundations of our national life in a new continent. We are the heirs of the ages, and yet we have had to pay few of the penalties which in old countries are exacted by the dead hand of a bygone civilization. We have not been obliged to fight for our existence against any alien race; and yet our life has called for the vigor and effort without which the manlier and hardier virtues wither away. Under such conditions it would be our own fault if we failed; and the success which we have had in the past, the success which we confidently believe the future will bring, should cause in us no feeling of vainglory, but rather a deep and abiding realization of all which life has offered us; a full acknowledgment of the responsibility which is ours; and a fixed determination to show that under a free government a mighty people can thrive best, alike as regards the things of the body and the things of the soul.
 
                 

Franklin D. Roosevelt

First Inaugural Address

Saturday, March 4, 1933
 
We do not distrust the future of essential democracy. The people of the United States have not failed. In their need they have registered a mandate that they want direct, vigorous action. They have asked for discipline and direction under leadership. They have made me the present instrument of their wishes. In the spirit of the gift I take it.25
  In this dedication of a Nation we humbly ask the blessing of God. May He protect each and every one of us. May He guide me in the days to come.
 
 
Harry S. Truman: Inaugural Address
The American people stand firm in the faith which has inspired this Nation from the beginning. We believe that all men have a right to equal justice under law and equal opportunity to share in the common good. We believe that all men have the right to freedom of thought and expression. We believe that all men are created equal because they are created in the image of God.
From this faith we will not be moved.
 

Dwight Eisenhower's First Inaugural Address

 
My friends, before I begin the expression of those thoughts that I deem appropriate to this moment, would you permit me the privilege of uttering a little private prayer of my own. And I ask that you bow your heads:

Almighty God, as we stand here at this moment my future associates in the executive branch of government join me in beseeching that Thou will make full and complete our dedication to the service of the people in this throng, and their fellow citizens everywhere.

Give us, we pray, the power to discern clearly right from wrong, and allow all our words and actions to be governed thereby, and by the laws of this land. Especially we pray that our concern shall be for all the people regardless of station, race, or calling.

May cooperation be permitted and be the mutual aim of those who, under the concepts of our Constitution, hold to differing political faiths; so that all may work for the good of our beloved country and Thy glory. Amen.

Inaugural Address of John F. Kennedy


 
FRIDAY, JANUARY 20, 1961
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.

 

Ronald Reagan

First Inaugural Address

Tuesday, January 20, 1981

I am told that tens of thousands of prayer meetings are being held on this day, and for that I am deeply grateful. We are a nation under God, and I believe God intended for us to be free. It would be fitting and good, I think, if on each Inauguration Day in future years it should be declared a day of prayer.

 


 
 
Barry my boy these certainly don't sound like throw away lines to me. In fairness I will be happy to continue the research if you feel there are some Presidents that fit your criteria. Give me a list I'll look them up !!!                                                                         
 

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laguna_b

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Reply with quote  #38 
Tom,

I didn't mean and I suspect you understood, that former presidents were atheists.  Tossing out an occasional prayer is a far cry from attempting to legislate religion, or promote it narrowly as has been the course over the past few years. You only have to look to the "faith based" initiatives and office thereof as established by the current administration. It is like I argued in another thread that adding Allah to the flag of a predominantly Islamic nation does not make it extremist.

What we have no are confessionals of religious proclamations by candidates of their religious zeal. This is dangerous. We are paralleling the mindless religiosity of the Islamic states we are trying to secularize. If you follow happenings in Turkey, the last major election was dominated by a party that had Islamic roots (of a theocratic nature) and the secular government favoring people were very nervous as of course we were. So we 'preach' secular governments  for Moslems while taking on more extreme 'Christian' theocrats as presidential candidates.

BTW, thanks for the research....

Barry


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Reply with quote  #39 

Actually the point was and is that this is a country founded , nurtured , governed with ideals by men that have always stressed a belief in God. A thankfulness for his gifts and a wish for his guidance. Their particular religion is not a question or a problem just the understanding that they all believe in God.   


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What we have no are confessionals of religious proclamations by candidates of their religious zeal. This is dangerous. We are paralleling the mindless religiosity of the Islamic states we are trying to secularize. If you follow happenings in Turkey, the last major election was dominated by a party that had Islamic roots (of a theocratic nature) and the secular government favoring people were very nervous as of course we were. So we 'preach' secular governments for Moslems while taking on more extreme 'Christian' theocrats as presidential candidates.


An' if you believe that that, there's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
We are not trying to secularize Islamic states. We are trying to get rid of the radicals an' terrorists. Big difference
Christianity is a threat to you not because of what you said, but because it interferes with what you call your "freedom", to which, I have referred to many times as license. The idea of a God puts moral judgement on the world and you want to get rid of it by getting rid of the judge.



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How to Conduct Politics as Catholics. The Denver Memorandum

A book by American archbishop Chaput is making a stir ahead of the presidential elections, against those who want to water down the faith or remove it from the public sphere.

Among the American bishops, Chaput is one of the most decisive in taking clear positions on abortion, the death penalty, immigration. In the controversy over giving communion to "pro-choice" Catholic politicians, he maintains that those who ignore the Church's teaching on abortion are no longer in communion with the faith. They separate themselves from the community of the faithful. And therefore, if they take Eucharistic communion, they commit an act of dishonesty.


http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/206226?eng=y

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Terrence P. Tuffy

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Reply with quote  #42 
SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 07, 2008

It's On
Well, folks, in case you were wondering when it's gonna begin, "Bishops on Biden" is already out the gate.

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Terrence P. Tuffy

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tom70

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Reply with quote  #43 

A society without religion is like a vessel without compass.


Napoleon


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TerrencePTuffyLSA69

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To Catholics of the Archdiocese of Denver:

When Catholics serve on the national stage, their actions and words impact the faith of Catholics around the country. As a result, they open themselves to legitimate scrutiny by local Catholics and local bishops on matters of Catholic belief. In 2008, although NBC probably didn’t intend it, Meet the Press has become a national window on the flawed moral reasoning of some Catholic public servants.

On August 24, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, describing herself as an ardent, practicing Catholic, misrepresented the overwhelming body of Catholic teaching against abortion to the show’s nationwide audience, while defending her “pro-choice” abortion views. On September 7, Sen. Joseph Biden compounded the problem to the same Meet the Press audience.

Sen. Biden is a man of distinguished public service. That doesn’t excuse poor logic or bad facts. Asked when life begins, Sen. Biden said that, “it’s a personal and private issue.” But in reality, modern biology knows exactly when human life begins: at the moment of conception. Religion has nothing to do with it. People might argue when human “personhood” begins – though that leads public policy in very dangerous directions – but no one can any longer claim that the beginning of life is a matter of religious opinion.

Sen. Biden also confused the nature of pluralism. Real pluralism thrives on healthy, non-violent disagreement; it requires an environment where people of conviction will struggle respectfully but vigorously to advance their beliefs. In his interview, the senator observed that other people with strong religious views disagree with the Catholic approach to abortion. It’s certainly true that we need to acknowledge the views of other people and compromise whenever possible – but not at the expense of a developing child’s right to life. Abortion is a foundational issue; it is not an issue like housing policy or the price of foreign oil. It always involves the intentional killing of an innocent life, and it is always, grievously wrong. If, as Sen. Biden said, “I’m prepared as a matter of faith [emphasis added] to accept that life begins at the moment of conception,” then he is not merely wrong about the science of new life; he also fails to defend the innocent life he already knows is there.

As the senator said in his interview, he has opposed public funding for abortions. To his great credit, he also backed a successful ban on partial-birth abortions. But his strong support for the 1973 Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade and the false “right” to abortion it enshrines, can’t be excused by any serious Catholic. Support for Roe and the “right to choose” an abortion simply masks what abortion is, and what abortion does. Roe is bad law. As long as it stands, it prevents returning the abortion issue to the states where it belongs, so that the American people can decide its future through fair debate and legislation.

In his Meet the Press interview, Sen. Biden used a morally exhausted argument that American Catholics have been hearing for 40 years: i.e., that Catholics can’t “impose” their religiously based views on the rest of the country. But resistance to abortion is a matter of human rights, not religious opinion. And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people’s convictions on everyone else. That is the nature of the law. American Catholics have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting the destruction of more than a million developing unborn children a year. Other people have imposed their “pro-choice” beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.

If we claim to be Catholic, then American Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly. We need to put an end to Roe and the industry of permissive abortion it enables. Otherwise all of us – from senators and members of Congress, to Catholic laypeople in the pews – fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.

+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

+James D. Conley
Auxiliary Bishop of Denver

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Reply with quote  #45 
I would have posted this on one of the archived abortion threads, but they are still locked.

Cardinal returns Order of Canada medal to the Canadian government

Montreal, Sep 12, 2008 / 10:29 pm (CNA).- Another Order of Canada recipient is protesting the government’s decision to honor Canada’s “Father of Abortion” with the country’s most prestigious award. In doing so, the Archbishop of Montreal, Cardinal Jean-Claude Turcotte has helped reignite Canada’s abortion debate as the country’s election season draws closer.

Last July, the Order of Canada was given to abortion doctor, Henry Morgentaler, the 85 year-old recognized by some as the leader of the movement that legalized abortion in Canada. Award officials select recipients of the honor based on the contributions the individual has made to the country.

Abortion and pro-life activists have clashed since the decision to award Morgentaler was made. Abortion supporters praise Morgentaler for “advancing women’s rights,” while pro-life groups have adamantly disagreed.

The Catholic bishops of Canada released a statement saying that Morgentaler’s selection “discredits the Order of Canada” by decorating a man who has “attacked the most vulnerable, the unborn.”

Others, such as Susanna Stubbs of Madonna House and Father Lucien Larre have given their Order of Canada medals back to the Canadian government in protest of Morgentaler’s decoration.

Yesterday Cardinal Turcotte followed their lead by returning the award received in 1996. According to the Associated Press, the prelate stated that he had hoped that the government officials would reconsider their selection, however, since they have not, he felt “obliged in conscience to reaffirm my convictions regarding the respect for human life, from conception to death."

On Thursday at a Catholic conference near Quebec City, Cardinal Turcotte stated that he needed to surrender his 1996 award or his silence could be misinterpreted.

He also compared abortion to war, explaining that no one has the right to take the life of another, the Calgary Herald reports.

"We are not the masters of human life; it rests in the hands of God," he said.

He also appealed to Canadians to consider the issue abortion during their election season and called for a “serious” and “profound” debate on this issue.

"I am appealing to people's conscience. They have to take a position on this and vote according to the position of the different parties.”

“This issue is not settled definitely and the debate that this decision (honoring Morgentaler) has sparked shows that there is not a consensus on abortion in Canada," he stated.

The Cardinal of Quebec City has also spoken against Morgentaler’s award saying that he should not be revered as a hero of Canadians.

"What he stands for deeply offends and infuriates many people. So, I think, there's a limit and we have to protest and voice our opposition," he said.


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Terrence P. Tuffy

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