Message Board User's Guide, Rules of Engagement, Posting Photos

 
Register  |   |   |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Note: This topic is locked. No new replies will be accepted.


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
DanWillett67

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 257
Reply with quote  #1 

 

Iraq Generals to President: You've Failed Us

05.01.2007

Washington, DC

Today, two retired Generals who led troops in Iraq expressed outrage at the President's veto of the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Health, and Iraq Accountability Act.
 
 
The President vetoed our troops and the American people.  His stubborn commitment to a failed strategy in Iraq is incomprehensible.  He committed our great military to a failed strategy in violation of basic principles of war.  His failure to mobilize the nation to defeat world wide Islamic extremism is tragic.  We deserve more from our commander-in-chief and his administration.
--Maj. Gen. John Batiste, USA, Ret.
 
This administration and the previously Republican controlled legislature have been the most caustic agents against America's Armed Forces in memory.  Less than a year ago, the Republicans imposed great hardship on the Army and Marine Corps by their failure to pass a necessary funding language.  This time, the President of the United States is holding our Soldiers hostage to his ego.  More than ever apparent, only the Army and the Marine Corps are at war - alone, without their President's support.
--Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, USA, Ret. 

laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #2 
There was NO reason to invade Iraq.....PERIOD.

We now have terroists WE have created there where before there were none.

No, I am sorry , this is so stupid to even talk about. How anyone could still look upon this horrid screw up and not blame the clearly addle headed moron in charge is totally beyond listening. (ever wonder why Nazi Germany had to be leveled before some would give up??)

I wonder what your portfolio will look like when we start paying off the debts and taking major hits in return for our agression............


__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
JimFlaherty66

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #3 
"(ever wonder why Nazi Germany had to be leveled before some would give up??)"

Some would say it's because we demanded unconditional surrender. 


__________________
James E. Flaherty
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #4 

Granny,

 

I’m sorry but I have to take exception with you here. I know nothing of MG Eaton (Ret), but I do know MG Batiste to be a patriot and a man of honor and great integrity. He resigned after leading the 1st Infantry Division’s very successful Iraqi deployment in 2005. General Batiste has advocated a much more aggressive prosecution of the war, including deployment of   150,000 European troops in addition to the current forces in Iraq.  I’d suspect MG Batiste is venting the frustration on having had to operate under the ‘politically correct’ rules of engagement placed on our forces, against a totally unscrupulous, uninhibited enemy, and yet be expected to accomplish in creditably difficult objectives. I believe that sometime ago, I posted that MG Batiste felt that this war has not been fought in accordance with the Powell Doctrine., fight to WIN or don’t fight at all.

 

It is clear we have no alternative but to fight. I believe the general is most upset that our forces have been committed without really being allowed to fight.

 

 


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #5 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
There was NO reason to invade Iraq.....PERIOD.

 

So I guess you agree that the UN is totally irrelevant to world? You seem to go even further than I do by implying that even resolutions, once passed, need not be enforced.

 

But then you over look the terms of the cease fire ending the Gulf War.   By breaching that agreement Saddam himself effectively re-ignited that conflagration?

 

Also our pilots who were attacked on a regular basis while patrolling the ‘no-fly’ zones may feel that there was an over riding need to invade Iraq…..PERIOD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
We now have terroists WE have created there where before there were none.

 

I thought the contention of the left is in Iraq we are not fighting terrorists but caught up in a native civil war. Well if they are terrorists (I believe a great many are) and we’re killing them there (and we are) that’s a very good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
No, I am sorry , this is so stupid to even talk about. How anyone could still look upon this horrid screw up and not blame the clearly addle headed moron in charge is totally beyond listening. (ever wonder why Nazi Germany had to be leveled before some would give up??)

 

What is stupid is that because of political pressures our forces weren’t allow to level areas in Iraq to get them to give up. Or at least kill them off since these wackos love death more than we love life. Give up; give out either’s an acceptable resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laguna_b
I wonder what your portfolio will look like when we start paying off the debts and taking major hits in return for our agression............

 

With the cost of the Iraq running at about 1% of GDP that debt is a minuscule problem compared to funding entitlements.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimFlaherty66
"(ever wonder why Nazi Germany had to be leveled before some would give up??)"

Some would say it's because we demanded unconditional surrender. 

 

Jim,

Isn’t that back when we’d fight to actually WIN? Obviously an outdated concept.

 

 


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
JimFlaherty66

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 289
Reply with quote  #6 
John,

Some historians, mainly Brits, think the unconditional surrender demand worked against potential internal dissension against Hitler's regime.  Goebbel's used the unconditional surrender demand in his propaganda saying that Germany had no choice but to fight to the death.  There was of course the abortive Von Stauffenberg attempt on Hitler, but there is speculation that if they could have cut a deal with the west the military might have removed Hitler.  I personally don't agree, I think all vestiges of that regime had to be expunged. 

Just curious what countries would supply the 150,000 European troops?

__________________
James E. Flaherty
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #7 

MG Batiste wanted either NATO or EU troops I'm not sure. I think he had a FAT CHANCE of getting them, but he was clear on wishing for significantly more troops. Enough to as Powell had said, find them, surround them and kill them


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
So I guess you agree that the UN is totally irrelevant to world? You seem to go even further than I do by implying that even resolutions, once passed, need not be enforced.


Pretty ingenuous of you to bring up the UN resolution based on the LIES Colin Powel presented as he surrendered his credibility forever. This resolution was SWORN by GWB to be used as leverage to enforce inspections with war as a last resort. We know how this was not the case in any way shape or form.

Quote:

I thought the contention of the left is in Iraq we are not fighting terrorists but caught up in a native civil war. Well if they are terrorists (I believe a great many are) and we’re killing them there (and we are) that’s a very good thing.



There is no way we can kill em as fast as we ar creating them.....the more we kill, the more we inspire......check the latest inel reports...we are the best recruitment tool they have.
Quote:
What is stupid is that because of political pressures our forces weren’t allow to level areas in Iraq to get them to give up. Or at least kill them off since these wackos love death more than we love life. Give up; give out either’s an acceptable resolution.


Yes, lets level Iraq....the way the warrior saves people.....the BEST way to feed a network organisation with fresh recruits is to be perceived as the evil empire....

So, how do you find all these "wackos"??? They do not wear uniforms, they do not have identifiable characteristics....you will LOSE everytime. Strategy strategy strategy......REALLY stupid.

Quote:
With the cost of the Iraq running at about 1% of GDP that debt is a minuscule problem compared to funding entitlements.


I know the idea of spending on "entitlements" is objectionable to you (Medical care, social programs etc) bothers you but I think they are better than killing people and destroying nations. We must have a really robust economy for the war to only cost 1% of GDP. Must be a $100 TRILLION economy then....The expected long term costs of this war is in the multi TRILLIONS. I think I would rather have medical care and education.....but those who live for eternal war probably find that petty.

Quote:
Isn’t that back when we’d fight to actually WIN? Obviously an outdated concept.


Yes, it is outdated....just like standing militarys are. Networks are the new paradigm. How do you acheive visctory against a network? How do you attack it? How do you define victory? Sorry, but the last standard war ended a LONG time ago.



__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
MG Batiste wanted either NATO or EU troops I'm not sure. I think he had a FAT CHANCE of getting them, but he was clear on wishing for significantly more troops. Enough to as Powell had said, find them, surround them and kill them


Of course the EU did not send troops. They weren't stupid enough to join this folly. They sure didn't want to "follow" a moron like Bush. Sadly we did. Without a doubt the EU and France have been vindicated.
No WMDs
Let loose a civil war and get bogged down in it.
Incite terror cells where there were none before.

As to the Powell statement, he was talking an army, this is a network....try surrounding a network!


__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #10 

Granny,

 

Your comments about Sec Rumsfeld, unfortunately ring true. You may have more in common with MG Batiste then your realize. Batiste is no fan of his and turned down a promotion to LTG and left the Army and a very promising career to be free to speak his mind.

 

The invasion of Iraq was planned to minimize casualties, including enemy casualties, the first time in history that was a major consideration. That should have given everyone an idea of the PC handcuffs that would be placed on our troops. Sensitivity to the anticipated complains both from abroad and here at home should not have been allowed to influence the battle plan. That, I believe is what Batiste means when he says that the strategy violates the basic principles of war. I believe he saying the objective has to be obtained regardless of costs. There was a lack of leadership in the administration’s not disregarding the inevitable pissing and moaning by old Europe, and anti-American and supposedly anti-war home industry.

 

In my mind, Bush’s real failure has been to let the media – the left- set the tone of debate. Evidently Bush believed he could be civil and he’s finding that the left views any attempt at civility as a sign of weakness and just hammer him more ruthlessly. Luckily, he is not so naive to enter into discussion, as some would have him do, with the Islamofascists. They too would only view any discusion as weakenss and would probably be almost as vicious as Bush’s domestic enemies.

 

The official motto of the division MG Batiste commanded in Iraq is simply,  “Victory’. The unofficial and more common motto is “No mission too difficult. No sacrifice too great. Duty First!” It has to frustrating and embittering to be lead and serve with troops who expected and willing to bear any sacrifice, but who are embargoed pursuing that victory by all means available. One of the first things I was told in the army was that it wasn’t my duty to die for my country. My duty was to afford the enemy EVERY chance to die for his! But as I’ve said before, we haven’t tried to win a war since 1945.

 

MG Batiste seems not to have any quarrel with the current administration on the objective, only the implementation.  Like the general’s call for more troops and a more aggressive prosecution of the war, here are some other comments the anti-Bushies won’t be quoting These are from an interview given in April ’06. (Quite a philippic against Rumsfeldt.) I added the emphasis.

 

“I'm not indicting the president one bit. I'm just saying that I came back from Germany to my country and I found that the people were not mobilized, not sacrificing for this incredible effort. If it's the country's main effort, let's all get behind it.”

 

“Well, first off, I think we have got to complete the mission in Iraq. We have no option; we need to be successful; we need to set the Iraqi people up for self-reliance.”

 

“I think we're going to be successful. There's nothing this country can't do, if we put our mind to it, but we need to do it right. We need to mobilize this country.

 

“Other than an occasional family that was committed to the war because one of their soldiers was in the fight, or sadly too many families whose soldiers had been killed or wounded, who really understand what sacrifice is all about, the rest of America only makes a decision whether they're going to put a yellow or red "Support Your Troops" sticker on the back of your car. And my question is: Why?” 

Damned good question!


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:

The invasion of Iraq was planned to minimize casualties, including enemy casualties, the first time in history that was a major consideration. That should have given everyone an idea of the PC handcuffs that would be placed on our troops.



Such a strategist......the army is NOT the problem here. These are civilians fighting us and a civil war. You constantly use models of war that are OUTDATED. This is a loose network. They can not declare war or peace, they just do what they are inspired to do which is attack the occupiers of their country. You can not surround them, you can not defeat them......but they can defeat YOU. They run off the fuel of occupation and every civilian or even enemy combatant who is killed inspires MORE to join.

You must not be paying attention...things are getting WORSE in Iraq, not better. The millions of Iraqis who could tolerate life under Saddam have fled from life under occupation. To make matters even worse we have this idiot in the White House who can't even implement the neocon strategy as flawed as that already is.

HOW DO YOU CONQUER A NETWORK?????

answer: You stop feeding it.....you isolate it from the populace.....you take away its fuel (propaganda value)  

We are doing the opposite.....


__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #12 

What nonsense, absolutely delusional!


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
What nonsense, absolutely delusional!


Another thoughtful analysis on your part......you know the CIA has been working with Craigslist because they are trying to understand the workings of organic networks....they understand how completely useless our military strategy has become......but of course you like Rumy prefer "fear and awe". We will learn first hand what fear and awe is in the future when the chickens with nukes come home to roost....and we have no friends to help us.


__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
JohnKerins66

Avatar / Picture

SPONSOR
Registered:
Posts: 2,485
Reply with quote  #14 

Barry how can any one have serious discourse with you when you just make things up?

 

“Such a strategist… the army is NOT the problem here.”  I have clearly said I am not a strategist and that I think it is egotistical delusion for most people, present company included, to claim they are in a position to formulate one. And I have never said that the army is the problem, and I don’t see how anything that I have said can be so misconstrued by a right thinking person. On what do you base the implication I have said such?

 

“You can not surround them, you can not defeat then…but they can defeat YOU.” Well then we’re all dead according to you. No wonder you favor surrender.

 

….things are getting WORSE in Iraq, not better.” Not according to Gen Petraeus, the jury is still out. But since you seem to lap up the pap fed you by the MSM, Democratic Underground and MoveOn.org, your conclusion is inevitable. Just not necessarily correct.

 

“HOW DO YOU CONQUER A NETWORK?????

answer: You stop feeding it.....you isolate it from the populace.....you take away its fuel (propaganda value)  

We are doing the opposite.....”

 

What the hell does all that mean? And how the hell will our pulling out isolate this network from the populace?

 

“…but of course you like Rumy prefer ‘fear and awe’.”  There you go again. What the hell do you mean? And on what basis do you feel competent to define what I prefer? Actually, I’d prefer victory in this War on Terrorism by any means.

 

“We will learn first hand what fear and awe is in the future when the chickens with nukes come home to roost…and we have no friends to help us.” The policies of the left will certainly hasten the day that Islamofacists have nuclear weapons. ‘And once they do, it won’t matter much whether we have ‘friends’ or not. But I’d expect, once the radical rag heads get the bomb, and all the West is threatened as all non-Muslims will be, even our old ‘friends’ the French,  will be praying to God for us to bail them out again.

 

By the way Barry, as someone who has such an understanding of the French, do you think if the demo-dopes in Congress ever manage to set a ‘quit’ date for Iraq the French will then sign on with us? I just don’t see them missing the chance to partake in such a significant surrender.

 

(Now Barry PLEAS.E, if you answer try to stay on the points you’ve made and I’ve challenged.  But fyi, the comment about the French is sarcasm and rhetorical.)

 

 IRONIC THAT AS I POSTED THIS IS THE QUOTE THAT APPEARED

 

We make war that we may live in peace.


Aristotle (10)

 

 

SOME THINGS DON'T CHANGE.


__________________

John 8:32
Veritas vos Liberabit
laguna_b

Avatar / Picture

Century Club
Registered:
Posts: 2,912
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Not according to Gen Petraeus, the jury is still out.

casualties are UP not down....

Quote:
No wonder you favor surrender.


can you find where I said that? This is the usual crap propaganda that you post. Typical JK obfuscation.....

Quote:
And how the hell will our pulling out isolate this network from the populace?


We do NOT speak Arabic. Our only communications with the locals is with guns and translators. Our very presence fuels rebellion. Just today it was revealed by the military that a poll taken showed that battle weary soldiers in a large majority think it is ok to savage civilians. When an invader does it it is agression. When a local does it is is abuse...there is a differrence....not sure how sensitive your human connections are since you are more used to war with 6000 feet between you and who you chose to attack.

Quote:
I have clearly said I am not a strategist


Not sure when you said ...but it IS obvious....
You are a blind flag waver who presents no strategy except to fight a 21st century problem with mid 20th Century methodologies. You might have been famous for the Maginot line had you been born earlier.....and in a more cultured place.


__________________
REAL Patriots Defend The Constitution!
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:


Create your own forum with Website Toolbox!